Buckeye 4

Jan 02, 2024

Bucknuts.com's Steve Helwagen hosted his weekly Chat on The Front Row message board. Check out the archive below.

Programming Note: Steve will again participate in Ohio State Buckeyes Live at 11 a.m. Eastern on Wednesday. Check out The Front Row for access details after 11 a.m. Wednesday.

Buckeye4527: Hello Steve, do you know if Ryan Day has a Michigan session with all new players each year that teaches them about the rivalry and why it's the most important game of the year? Also Urban had someone that kept up with everything Michigan does in recruiting and other moves they make. Does Day have someone doing this? The reason I’m asking this is because Michigan has stepped up big time not only in recruiting but all aspects of their program. This isn't the same Michigan program that Tressel and Urban played. Thanks

Helwagen: That is a good question. I can't say they sit everybody down and have a 30- or 60-minute session with the newcomers on exactly what that rivalry means. I think it is something that is discussed in the recruiting process and is obvious for any kids who come to campus for those games in the even-numbered years.

I think they have ways to make it apparent. There are countdown clocks in the building -- including one in the weight room. Plus a full display on the rivalry in a hallway.

Not sure if Day has a designated Michigan recruiting and personnel moves tracker. But that activity can be easily tracked by anybody with sub to 247Sports LOL.

I agree on this not being the same Michigan program. They were on cruise control from 2007 until a couple years ago, they just didn't know it. Harbaugh hired hungry young assistants who pounded the pavement for better players and coached them up. Their program in many ways is closer to Ohio State now than it's been in a long time.

Regarding Michigan, we can wring hands and worry about it for 365 days a year. In my honest opinion, this is what it comes down to: It should be a tight game at halftime. It comes down to the OSU defense containing the run and the amazing Blake Corum in the second half of that game. If he's getting 7 yards a carry and rips off a 70-yard TD in the second half, then forget it. But if OSU's front 6-1/2 can play truly physical and stop him for short gains and force them to throw ... and then get pressure on the QB, then they have a chance.

That's all that's going to matter in the final analysis, I think.

ButlerBuck: With talk of changing the signing window and so forth, can you see them making kids in football and both men and women's basketball who are transferring to a power 5 school sit out a year because of the big boys raiding each other and smaller schools? One of the SEC coaches mentioned last week no one is going to promise kids big bucks to transfer if they have to sit out a year

Helwagen: Yeah, the toothpaste is out of the tube. The athletes can now transfer at least once without sitting out and it looks like it is also open season to entice players from other teams to your team. One of the coaches during the NCAA later rounds (may have been a Final Four team) said schools were openly contacting and tampering with his players who had not even entered the portal yet. So it's open season.

They aren't going back on any of these rights. They'd get it with an antitrust lawsuit they can't win, likely.

This is why coaches in the marquee sports need to embrace the churn. Everybody is losing guys. Just get what you need in the after market. I think OSU football did that with Davison Igbinosun and Ja'Had Carter and basketball did with Jamison Battle.

It's by no means fan friendly because there is no loyalty and few guys stick around 3-4 years to build that kinship with the fanbase. Look at OSU hoops Key is one of the only 4-year players they've had in a while. Kyle Young was, Andre Wesson was. Who else?

Ozzman22: Steve whatever happened to Reid Carcario at linebacker? This kid was supposed to be the real deal coming out of Ironton. Just strange

Helwagen: You know, he's still there. His issue was he was recruited by Al Washington and then Jim Knowles inherited him. He was also "recruited over" a bit with Gabe Powers and C.J. Hicks coming in for the 2022 class. They changed scheme from 4-3-4 to 4-2-5 so there are fewer opportunities. He needs to earn his spot on special teams and then maybe will get some run on defense. Looks like he starts fall camp on the third team, though, and lot of guys in front of him for playing time on defense.

I'd assume it's Chambers-Hicks outside and Eichenberg-Simon-Powers inside. Not sure how Carrico fits in. He'd be No. 6 on the list right now overall. Maybe I'm wrong, but will be an uphill battle for playing time on defense.

Birdytoday: Steve I’m thinking about succession planning for Coach LJ… what names would see on a short list to be his replacement? PS. I think even if he retires this year he will remain as an analyst of some sort. IMO.

Helwagen: Yeah, great question. I know Coach Day does like Al Washington a lot and the plan was for him to move to D-line if LJ retired last year. But that did not happen. Maybe they bring him back to OSU if/when that happens.

But James Laurinaitis could also be an option. He would just be picking up a new discipline with the D-line but he is a bright, energetic guy and I think he'd do well there.

Carseye: Not that McCord and/or Brown couldn't be great, but is there any thinking that maybe Ohio State could be a better team if we weren't so quarterback dependent? Obviously, you need good QB play to be successful these days, but it seemed like such a high-wire act these past 2 years. Either CJ made the play or we failed.

Helwagen: I understand where you're coming from. But examine the 4 losses, they lost to Oregon 35-28 with 3 same running plays for Oregon TDs, lost to Michigan 42-27 could not stop the Michigan run, lost to Michigan 45-23 gave up 5 long TDs, lost to Georgia 42-41 defense fell apart in fourth quarter.

Most of those games OSU had enough points and good enough quarterback play to win the game. The defense was not good enough either year.

I guess I'd rather have a high percentage thrower at QB who keeps the ball away from the opponent. I don't think the offense being Stroud-centric hurt them.

I do believe they need better balance. They ran it 53 percent of the time and threw it 47 percent of the time. That's pretty good balance. The production was 61 percent passing and 39 percent rushing. They need to better running the football. That helps with clock management and making it easier for the young quarterbacks.

I understand your premise. I liked Stroud's production but maybe something was not entirely clicking.

Jbauhof: Has there been any chatter about kicking Matt Jones to center ? He was the number 1 OC in his class coming out and I just wonder if our best 5 would involve kicking him in to center and getting Tegra back starting at RG, where he looked pretty solid last season in limited action. Haven't heard anything to make it seem like hinzman has been a world beater thus far

Helwagen: He did not rep there in the spring. It was almost always Hinzman or Victor Cutler. I hear what you're saying and I figured when Matt said he was coming back it was to spend some time at center. It makes sense to me. It's also possible Jakob James, a real grinder and technician, could be the best of the lot. We just don't know because he was hurt in the spring. Talk about bad timing. I did not hear anything bad about Hinzman, I should add.

I agree on Tegra. I think he could be one of their best five and may, in fact, be better suited at guard. He struggled some in pass protection.

They have a ton of bodies with Josh Simmons there now too. They will sift through it and play the best five guys.

Jbauhof: What is your honest opinion on Day's job security, were he to lose for a third consecutive time to TTUN this November. This is also assuming we dont then go on to win a natty in spite of that. Say it is a repeat of '21. Lose The Game, miss playoff, win rose bowl. How hot is that seat?

Helwagen: Good question. I think he is safe. He runs a clean program, he has a good staff (it seems), he recruits well, his offense is exciting and fun to watch. Obviously, he and Gene Smith and Buckeye Nation are hoping it all comes together and they beat Michigan, win the Big Ten, win a playoff game at least get to the national championship game. Would certainly cement his tenue with a national championship game win.

I know the hardcores here are worried whether he "gets it" or if the program is suddenly "too soft" or if Mickey Marotti is "behind the times" and doesn't have the team ready to play Michigan. Those are just empty message board premises, in my opinion. The fact of the matter is the winningest program in the history of the sport finally got their stuff together after largely two decades of lethargy. Bully for them, now Ohio State needs to counteract that. It's not like they're losing to Purdue or Rutgers here. They're losing to Michigan, one of the game's all-time powerhouses. That's supposed to be a 50/50 game every year ... it just hasn't been since 2001.

When you start questioning his job security, you have to consider the alternative. Who's next? Is it indeed Brian Hartline? Is he ready? Or Mike Vrabel or again with Luke Fickell or somebody else? Who's making that call? Is it Gene Smith, who has to be nearing the end of his tenure? I think Day outlasts Gene as of right now, whether's 5 or 10 more years for Day (who really knows?).

You also have to consider his contract buyout. He is under contract for six more years through the 2029 season at $9.5 million (or more) per year. He can pay $5 million any time to leave and that decreases as the deal goes on. But OSU, failing the chance to fire him for cause (i.e. NCAA violations, a crime or some other morals issue), could be on the hook for $40 million or more to buy him out after this season (would go down each year, obviously).

So say he loses to Michigan this year and next year. Do you spend $30 million in December 2024 to send him on his way? That still sounds like a lot of money to pay somebody not to coach. Maybe $20 million after the 2025 season would be palatable. But with a 12-team playoff and them figuring to make it nearly every year with this level of recruiting, would you pull the plug on that?

Think it through. The coach has to be evaluated on more than just what happens that one day of the year. And, moreover, what happens that one day out of the year will mean less and less as you get into the 12-team playoff. That's my full thought on his job security.

Short of him pulling out his checkbook to go to an NFL team, he ain't going nowhere anytime soon. He's going to fire Ohio State before Ohio State fires him.

JHarness102: What is going on with Jeremiah Smith. Twitter was blowing up last night. Saw he removed all his OSU commit info on his socials.

Helwagen: You know, I'm not inside his head and don't know for sure what he is thinking. I know on Wednesday of last week he tweeted a nut and a lock, which I presume means he is still Ohio State committed.

????

He may take visits elsewhere, I honestly don't know. I think he knows and understands what playing for Brian Hartline at Ohio State can do for him. He's helped make multi-millionaires out of Chris Olave and Garrett Wilson and will do the same for Marvin Harrison Jr. and Emeka Egbuka after this year.

The track record shows Ohio State throws it all over the lot. You get every chance you need to showcase what you can do. Hey, this is where we're at in June 2023. Kids can do and say and post whatever they want. He is a great player and would certainly help the bottom line at Ohio State in 2024-26. But it's not worth bothering the kid on social media about what he's going to do. Let him follow his path in peace. Ohio State is going to be just fine either way.

walterT: Are NIL deals that are presented this time of year to recruits just verbal or is there some sort of signed commitment?

Helwagen: I don't think recruits can enter into any formal NIL agreements before enrolling. I assume any offers would be verbal. Now if they're allowed to take them as high school athletes in their states that may be an exception. Once their eligibility is over in November or December, that would be a gray area. If they are late enrollees until next June, that would be a gray area as well.

It was notable that The Foundation openly announced deals with six of the 2023 freshmen within 2 weeks of their enrollment in January. They put their money where their mouth was ... and I can't say whether any promises were or were not made formally, informally, verbally, on paper or otherwise before those deals were announced in January. I was not privy to any of those talks or negotiations. Nobody discusses it -- not the athletes (who wants their business out in the street?), not their parents and not the OSU coaches (there is ambiguity still about what is and is not legal under NCAA rules, so the less they discuss the mechanism or how the sausage is truly being made the better).

I assume the coaches can point to comparisons and say "last year's top guys got this" and "CJ Stroud got this" as part of the recruiting pitch. It has definitely added another wrinkle to the mix for sure.

gessig: Steve..I respect Ryan Day as a coach but I just dont understand some of his decisions.. What does Parker Fleming bring to the pursuit of winning a national title that James Laurinaitis does not bring?

Helwagen: And I don't understand the vitriol for Parker Fleming. They blocked some punts last year with him doing the Xs and Os. Did they mess up possible fake punts vs. Michigan or Georgia? Maybe they did. Those games should not come down to those plays, right? There were 70 plays on offense and 70 on defense and they just weren't good enough.

OSU's kickers and punters have been great. Nobody returns punts anymore. Kick returns are rare ... but Xavier Johnson had a big one in the win over Maryland. Nobody returns kicks or punts against OSU.

I don't understand why people are down on Parker Fleming. The one against Michigan the backup long snapper apparently wasn't paying attention and didn't get the signal. Everybody else did. Is that on Fleming? Really? Maybe the LS and punter and upback should have all been standing with Fleming before they went out. But you want it to look as normal as possible.

Laurinaitis will get a fulltime coaching job when one opens up. He's happy to be at Ohio State, from everything I know. And he is fully involved in helping the team succeed.

foxr2001: Some recent topics on the front row lead me to ask your opinions.

1, Has Ryan Day overall: exceeded your expectations, met your expectations, not delivered on your expectations?

2, With the SEC deciding on sticking with 8 conference games, a. are you surprised at all? b. do you think they are chickening out or being smart in not increasing to 9 games, and c. what should the B1G do, do away with divisions but stay at 9 games with up to 3 permanent opponents, do away with divisions but stay at 9 games with only 1 permanent opponent, do away with divisions and reduce to 8 conference games, or stay exactly as is with a little realignment?

3, On a scale of 1-10, what is your concern level with the OL at this point? And is this the position group you are most concerned with and if not, what group comes in higher?

4, Better RB when 100% healthy, Corum or Miyan (or another Buckeye)?

5, Should OSU ditch the field turf in favor of a real grass field? (obviously they won't do this any time soon given that they just put in the new turf)

6, Last one, is Mickey Marotti passed his prime and should we move on from him or is this all smoke blown by people who don't know what they're talking about?

Just FYI, here is how I answer the above questions: 1. exceeded, 2. either stick with divisions with slight realignment or go to an 8-game conference schedule to match the SEC, 3. 8 but DB is still slightly higher, 4. Miyan because he does what he does in an offense set to pass the ball unlike scUM where they are set up for Corum to run, 5. no opinion, 6. keep Marotti at least for now.

Helwagen: Will handle these one at a time, here goes ...

1, That is a loaded question. I think he has done the job. Two Big Ten titles and three playoff appearances in four years. One win over Michigan and two losses and one no play. I'd say met my expectations. I didn't think he would exceed what Urban did right out of the gate.

His next 4-5 years will define his tenure if he can get back to beating Michigan, winning the Big Ten and join Tressel and Meyer in breaking through to win a national championship. I believed when he was hired he could win an NC at Ohio State and I still do. Might need to be this year (and they have one of the 2-3 most talented rosters) because it will be a mass exodus after this season.

2, The SEC is being extremely short-sighted. It's not about joining other leagues with 9 league games. Strangely, it's about money. The most money comes from the regular season TV package and they add value by playing as many SEC games as possible. The nine-game schedule in Big Ten creates a larger inventory or more valuable games, even trickling down to Fox Sports 1, Peacock and Big Ten Network in this new deal.

Here's the example: Alabama vs. Florida or Missouri is worth more to ESPN/SEC Network than Alabama vs. Southern Miss or The Citadel.

The coaches didn't want the extra challenge of another tough SEC game. They will get their 3-4 teams in the playoff every year going forward regardless of what they do. They're stupid for not giving the TV partners the best package they can give them.

Back on the SEC question, this new Big Ten TV deal is transformational wealth for schools like Rutgers, Indiana and Northwestern that are hardly even investing in football or trying to win. You'd think the rank-and-file SEC schools would vote down Alabama and whoever wanted the 8-team slate. You bring in Oklahoma and Texas ... but don't set up scenarios where you don't have them playing A&M, Florida, Georgia, Alabama and LSU as much as possible? What?

I did not answer the part on future of the Big Ten. I think they should stay with nine games (obviously after arguing SEC should go to nine) and also do away with divisions. That would open things up so you can get the attractive Michigan-USC and Ohio State-USC match-ups and all the others more often.

Plus, following the theme of the SEC answer, it also guarantees a better property for your TV partners. Instead of OSU-Northwestern or Michigan-Purdue, you get a top-10 match-up of Ohio State-Penn State or maybe even top 3 one week rematch of OSU-Michigan.

Instead of getting a 7 rating for Michigan-Purdue, you get a 20 rating for another OSU-Michigan game ... knowing both teams are already in the playoff anyway. They're just playing for the Big Ten trophy and a first round bye. Still important.

3, I'd say my level of concern with the offensive line is a 7. They did not protect the quarterback well at all in the spring. There was one scrimmage with maybe 80-100 plays and 10 of them were negative plays. That would equate to 5-6 in a real game. Now how many of those were freshmen or walk-ons against better players on defense? I'm not sure.

But it has to look and feel better in the fall. There are going to be some missed assignments on the OL during games this fall. It's going to happen. They won't be perfect. But the skill position players and improvement on defense should offset some of that.

Need to identify the top 5-7 linemen, rep them in the spots they will play and get ready for the season.

4, Tough question on the running backs. Let's put it this way -- when healthy, Corum has shown he is better than anybody else. When healthy, TreVeyon Henderson is probably closest and then Miyan Williams is not far behind. OSU needs its dynamic duo to be healthy and answer the bell for all of the big games in 2023, as compared to what happened last year. Will Corum be as good this year coming off his injury? We will see.

5, I don't have the answer on the FieldTurf/grass dilemma. Part of me says the game is safer on grass than on turf, but the industry as a whole -- down to nearly every high school in central Ohio -- has gone to FieldTurf. It's just a more consistent surface than grass in areas where fields get heavy use and/or can become mudpits with heavy rains.

The grass field at Paul Brown Stadium was terrible for the OSU-UC game in 2002 and the grass field at Ohio Stadium was terrible for the OSU-Michigan game in 2006.

This was the quote I found on PBS' field: "For its first four years, the field was natural Kentucky Bluegrass, but maintenance problems arose, and at one point it was rated as the third worst field in the league." They've been FieldTurf for almost 20 years now there.

I'm not an engineer. All I know is what I was told. The Ohio Stadium field when it was lowered was put below the flood plain of the Olentangy River. I think that made drainage an issue because water is always fighting to get to the lowest level. My guess is they have pumps assist with that.

The other issue with the lower field is how high the stands were raised on each side of the stadium. This is now like trying to grow grass in between two 15-story buildings. There is not enough sunlight hitting the field during the course of the day to allow for grass to grow like it needs to.

Again, this is all I've ever heard about why they can't have grass. I don't sense Ohio State is going away from it anytime soon.

6, Regarding Mickey Marotti, we had a Boarding House note last week with somebody asserting time has passed him by. I don't agree with that one bit. They've lost to Michigan two years in a row because the recruiting on the defensive side of the ball went way downhill between 2018-21 or thereabouts. There were not enough difference makers on that side of the ball at any of the three levels.

Marotti is only going to be as good as the material he is given by the coaches.

I did not agree with that BH note, not one bit. This is still the Big Ten Conference. You have to have a combination of speed and size and strength to be the best in this league. Even the bad teams are still rugged. He has done an amazing job of preparing OSU's teams to dominate the Big Ten. They've gone 90-7 (.928 win percentage) in Big Ten games (regular season and championship games) since he got there in 2012. I doubt anybody has ever had a string of 90 wins in 97 Big Ten games.

Hey, they were literally one play from beating Georgia and blasting TCU for the national championship. One kick, one missed tackle, 7 more yards on that last drive. Inches, they lost that game by a matter of inches. They were voted No. 4 in the final poll, but by January they were the second-best team. That was all of Mickey Marotti's failings as a guy who prepares them.

Have there been injury issues with this team? Sure, but everybody else has had them, too. Georgia played without one of its best DL and lost an NFL TE in the first half.

Do they need to beat Michigan this year? Yes, sure ... and I will posit again what I said earlier that will come down to whether they are strong and rugged enough to stop the Michigan run game in the second half of that game. Marotti has a hand in that, certainly, but so do the quality of the players, the scheme and the play calls by the coaches.

He's just one piece of the puzzle. It all needs to lock into place.

Parting Shot: Guys and gals, I think we answered all of the questions. We will be in for Ohio State Buckeyes Live on Wednesday morning. Thanks again to everybody for posting questions and reading.

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